Jason Mac: Hi this is Jason from jasonmac.us and you are listening to the Technology Evangelist podcast for Wednesday June 20^th 2007.

Introducer: Recorded live with audience participation.

Benjamin Higginbotham: My name is Benjamin Higginbotham and with me is the beautiful fantabular wonderful and bencredible.

Cariann Higginbotham: Wait how I bencredible.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Because I said so.

Cariann Higginbotham: Way to be creative.

Benjamin Higginbotham: I had to think up one on my feet and I just nothing came tonight.

Cariann Higginbotham: Because you are sitting down.

Benjamin Higginbotham: I am still leaning on my feet.

Cariann Higginbotham: Any how.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Cariann Higginbotham is joining us as usual, say a little hi.

Cariann Higginbotham: Hi.

Benjamin Higginbotham: There you go, this trade mark hi, probably I should take that out and just stick that into other shows when you are not here and people would still think you are here, you say the same at every night. Joining us live as well as Jason Mac. Jason is one of those wonderful people who has been a with us since nearly the beginning definitely since we started on Ustream.Tv, regular listener in the Ustream chat room as well as a participant and he is joining us live right now.

Cariann Higginbotham: First time caller.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Long time listener first time caller, Jason Mac welcome to the show, tell us a little bit about yourself?

Jason Mac: Well I just got into the Mac world here recently in the name Jason Mac and I was a PC user actually for about 12 years and just playfully got sick of windows crash and this and that so what I did was, the first way I got into the Mac was about me a old blue and white G3 power Mac and just pay like $30 bucks for that, just a try though, has a tendency about like it and once I really understand and I just fell love with it, how fast it works and clean easy to use so then I have set the money down to this Math book I got now and loved ever since want to restore the website about, how about a month ago now, I’ve been running the podcast on the Mac book podcast, where I saw the present problems that the Mac books normally have and then also the solutions along with them for other people that you are getting into the Mac world and also I’ve a few videos on their must switch video actually be I like the old TV commercial show with the music and everything that’s kind of funny so, whether I love in the Mac world that’s what I am in to now and ….

Benjamin Higginbotham: Where can users get into your website, what’s the URL for that?

Jason Mac: Its www.jasonmac.us. It’s also in the chat room Cariann just posted it.

Cariann Higginbotham: Trying to watch up for you Jason. I know it’s hard to type and talk at the same time.

Benjamin Higginbotham: So how long could you convert into Macintosh and what prompted you to change?

Jason Mac: It’s been about three months now I’ve been on Mac. Actually what I did first was I tried Linux, I tried Ubuntu and it was really tough installing – certain programs that I was used to on the windows side to get to do the same thing. I want to do that I did on the windows so I could never really get into that much and get it to do what I wanted to do and so of course I saw the Apple Ads on Tv and few friends also do that Mac’s and I just started messing around with G3 just to see about whether you like it and I got rip down it and immediately bought the Mac book shortly after that.

Benjamin Higginbotham: That’s you’ve only been doing this for three months and I must have been, pretty you just – jump both feet into this, you did the blue and white, just went straight to the Mac book?

Jason Mac: Yeah I am cram in all these stuff in my head and – just trying to whatever much as I can about Mac so that I can be helpful to others in serving and get called up – all these people would been Mac users will laugh and trying to catch up the bag and just learn as much as I can and.

Benjamin Higginbotham: What’s interesting there is I had a very similar situation although I’ve been on Apple Macintosh for quite a bit longer back in right as Mac OS 10 was entering beta stage on the server side it was called Rap city at that time, I was doing server administration stuff for audio and video company and at that time really was windows are windows because Linux was really not ready for prime time at that point even on this service side or just it was real hackers or so I don’t want to say hackers but – if you are tinker or coder but really not for any of my limited mental capacity and so I saw rhapsody and I was like “wow! This seems really cool”. So my first computer actually was a blue and white G3 which is sounds like was yours as well the difference is of course at the time the blue and white was the latest and greatest that Apple had so I think I spent like $6500 on this computer.

Cariann Higginbotham: Did you want to tell the whole story?

Benjamin Higginbotham: Where the part of the screen or the?

Cariann Higginbotham: No because you are like Oh so I got the computer and I thought it was really cool, did you want me to backup ….

Benjamin Higginbotham: No I let you tell the part of the story.

Cariann Higginbotham: I don’t remember who it was? Because I wasn’t with you at that point. I remember was according to the stories and whoever was it that – bided in to it will back us up unfortunately like I said I don’t remember who it was. I know that there was somebody I want to say it was Lundo actually who, the two we were having the PC Mac debate like it goes on …. And he finally said – you know what, have you tried Macintosh?

Benjamin Higginbotham: I said well – in school he said no, have you tried one outside of the school environment, which is the fair argument, a Mac or a PC in the school environment. Nothing like the actual PC you are going to run at home. So he told me to try this out and I said I will give it a shot and then the day, I actually at the time there weren’t Apple retail stores so I set up an appointment to go in and it just also wanted to do was look right I just wanted to see they had to offer and see for something I’d been willing have buying and trying what the deal was. I had a serious infection, a very serious infection and they had to do immediate surgery and they drug me up, so they could do the surgery and it was the same day, so I left and I still in drug I wasn’t supposed to drive and I ignored them as I usually I do and so I went out and I kept my appointment with these people so in this drunken, not really drunken it was enlightened shouldn’t be driving stupid, where everything sounds like a great idea. I was like I need one of those and two of those LCD screens and I am like can I get the SGI model that’s the wide screen with the super cock. Keep in mind wide screen monitors are at that time, there was like one wide screen monitor on the market again this is before the, this is like 90 something.

Cariann Higginbotham: Yeah its 97.

Benjamin Higginbotham: And so it was scary expensive and I don’t even - I woke up the next day and I am like that’s a cool looking computer. Where that come from sounds like I got a Macintosh.

Cariann Higginbotham: All this is very good advice. I want everyone in the chat room to go out and do the exact same thing.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Anyhow, that’s how I started my Macintosh career.

Cariann Higginbotham: The moral of the story is that Lundo said you have to try it, you have to try for significant amount of time not just 20 minutes, you have to try it really work on it – a week, two weeks a whole month and then come back to me and tell me that its bad or horrible or it sucks or – then tell me what your grapes are.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Yeah what’s really interesting is I was a hardcore windows zellet before that moment and it would have taken – a whole lot of effort to make me switch over but I like to think that I was willing to try anything at least just to see it for it would work just – I gave it a shot because you never know and so he said what you say this are you willing to back that up in the mic – he challenged me, you have challenged my manhood I must do this now.

Cariann Higginbotham: But your father kicks in at that point.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Absolutely so I did and it was interesting because I never look back from that moment forward I haven’t purchased a PC to myself since then and I don’t think I will for the foreseeable future. I just – you don’t have to deal with windows bloat there is a whole bunch of stuff but this is the technology evangelist not the Apple evangelist even though we are Apple evangelist so as well, so we will continue on Apple tirade later, but lets talk a couple of little actually lets go back at that time. This is actually in my show notes and so I am going to start with this topic because its – is relevant and there is something called Apple yellow box. They are different boxes, red box, blue box, yellow box. Yellow box is an interesting concept what the yellow box is it’s a programming environment where its actually an environment where you could program something for windows say a text editor and you could run it on your Macintosh neatly, so you could take, I wouldn’t say any windows applications but many windows applications and run them directly on your Macintosh. This was a feature that was supposed to be coming out that you could use their program environment for and you could bloat to just about you could bloat Mac OS 10, you could diploid a windows, it could diploid play whatever you want and that was – power behind the next generation operating system and they were like ready to go, they ready to deploy it was the part of the power next step and then all of sudden it is like it vanished. It just ….. it went away and Amzer is saying we boom to have something similar and Linux does have something very similar and I am just wondering hey whatever happen to that, where the Yellow box ever go and little bit – there are rumors all through out the years that Apple is going to bring Yellow box back and you can be able to do all that stuff and there are different boxes as blue box, red box and some these things are the migration to Intel as a box so you can run all of your power PC applications inside of Intel, the migration from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS 10 that was another one where you could run all of your OS 9 applications inside of OS 10 although there was nearly so all again and I wondered two things if Yellow box technology ever comes back with that be the death of applications from Mac OS 10 because I can just write a windows applications and I don’t need to write one from Mac OS 10 why would I write a Mac OS 10 application because is it run in Mac OS 10 that’s fine.

Cariann Higginbotham: Oh I see which is – I was a little lousy for a moment.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Is that making sense now.

Cariann Higginbotham: Yes.

Benjamin Higginbotham: I – got glossed over little bit too much I think should have backed up there but.

Cariann Higginbotham: No I am sure like three horse of the room knows exactly what you are talking about and I am proudly one of the – two was – like …..

Benjamin Higginbotham: So what happens to the application here we actually I would have asked such as Steve who is in our Ustream chat room, who is the one of the programmers who made, who is the programmer who made CAMTOUS the application used to do the cool live stuff of all these facts and banners nifty gizmos and gadgets sit on the screen. I am wondering about he would think if he could develop an application for windows that would work on windows and Mac OS 10, would he develop both versions or would he only develop for windows. So it is a first half is Yellow box even a good idea.

Cariann Higginbotham: Wait but he only developed for windows, why wouldn’t he “Only develop for”

Benjamin Higginbotham: Because you can’t take your Mac OS.

Cariann Higginbotham: You take over Mac that windows being a windows demand.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Exactly.

Cariann Higginbotham: None of the thing that I clearly wasn’t picking up apparently.

Benjamin Higginbotham: But Steve is not answering. He is off drinking some where, he is off coding the next version of CAMTOUS he is making to go. I think that I throw that out there because I though that it was a somewhat interesting question this was brought up on Mac roomers not that long ago on 6:14 and they were going to say Apple box does exist and this was brought up for Safari saying that the US done Apple box ask type technology to bring Safari to windows which is odd because of the reverse – we are talking about, still that thing. Now turns out that’s not true find it interesting that Yellow box pops up about once a year and its just one of those part of the power of Mac OS 10, is that they can do this stuff. Yellow box isn’t one of those things where the technology can't be done as very too complex , I’ve no doubt in my mind that Roswell building a 11 in the Apple campus, they’ve got Yellow box working and running they have been for two years. This isn’t like be conspiracy that I think they just, they’ve got work in somewhere they know they can do it, it just the politics behind it do they really want to deploy that.

Cariann Higginbotham: Well explain to me who would have the bigger issue, do you think that windows in general community would have the bigger out cry or do you think the Apple Mac community is it I am saying?

Benjamin Higginbotham: I think the Macintosh Yellow would love it because then the Yellows to be able to go, no we can do anything what can you do, you can do anything … and the windows programmers are be like …. Ok great that’s good to feel and run my windows App I am not giving you OS 10 now. Eat that so I think that’s part of why they haven’t and won’t really sit but that’s why I think and then so next year, a year from now when Yellow box comes backup because I seem to be bored the entire chat room we are going to move on but when Yellow box comes backup or just before back to this episode and be right now do here it was a boring topic, just listen to that we will move on. Exactly, I realize like two minutes to go that is boring everyone but then I was like ….. I think this is interesting so scary I am going to keep boring.

Jason Mac: Programming boring.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Well – sometimes it is.

Cariann Higginbotham: Not to programmers.

Benjamin Higginbotham: No even sometimes the programmers I guess it depends. Lets change I was going to talk about the Iphone and how the plastic has changed to glass and how they’ve also made it smaller and I think we’ve now talked about this lets move on to.

Cariann Higginbotham: And done.

Benjamin Higginbotham: And done right see that be boring topic too, how much can you talk about plastic and glass right.

Cariann Higginbotham: Yeah they were from plastic to glass.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Now scratch resistant fantastic let can we spend 5 minutes on scratch resistance.

Cariann Higginbotham: No.

Benjamin Higginbotham: I don’t think so. An amateur charged inferior of blogosphere. That’s a hard title to read.

Cariann Higginbotham: Yeah it – this no I did not write, it CNN wrote it.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Of course CNN wrote it.

Jason Mac: Cariann spell it with that.

Cariann Higginbotham: It is I know its bad, I am sorry.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Tell me about that one?

Cariann Higginbotham: You know its kind of hard to explain. I don’t know even know where to start. There is a gentleman by the name of Andrew Keen. He is mid forties brit [phonetic] who had started what was it called, I will see now, I can remember is that not often.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Did you me to talk for you?

Cariann Higginbotham: Yes talk.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Ok I actually didn’t have anything always so I was just asking to helping that you are going to say no, I got it right here, is it a website that he started or is it the his personal website.

Cariann Higginbotham: Its not his personal website its something he was part of the original .com boom bubble if you will.

Benjamin Higginbotham: And then he got burned I assume.

Cariann Higginbotham: He did but the way he words it is that he – just about made money audio café that’s what it was – so one of the first websites that was solely dedicated to pretty much just music. I guess you could say the original Itunes store to certain extent or the original MTv on the Webbers something along those lines and – if the bubble broke and this and the other and he didn’t really make money and ….. now for every reason I don’t know who kicked him after the bubble burst but he has got some issues with web 2.0 and his issues – go and on and on. He pretty much has described 99.99% of the web community as a whole as things like exuberant monkeys creating an endless digital forest of mediocrity. He is calling us the Pajama army pretty much to saying that all there is out there are.

Jason Mac: Amateurs.

Cariann Higginbotham: Amateurs pretty much hacks in general and because there is so much of this – entry level stuff out there that there is no room for anyone who has any sort of talent to raise to the top or raise above all of these mediocrity.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Didn’t we talk about this little bit yesterday in that we talking about the difference between something like stick cam and Ustream in the post show, where stick cam you have got all these Tiny bobers and you just have this exactly that the sea of mediocrity and when we put technology evangelist podcast in there, we just get lost in this just babble you just can’t find us when you get there is just all just …… where as on Ustream is much more focused its – higher end stuff its and it is not a professionally produced stuff but if this not the sea of just pool.

Cariann Higginbotham: No I understand.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Is not the same concept.

Cariann Higginbotham: And oddly enough that is probably the one general area where I and lots of other people actually agreed with him. The issue that most of us are having is where he decided somewhere along the line that mainstream media, newspapers, broadcast, entertainment, television, movies, music – are all culture as a whole is they are the gate keepers of our culture, they are the elite, they are the answer, they are the end of, they are the professionals ok. So basically what he is trying to tell me is that Foxnews their little technology section knows more about – the iLiad that you just purchased more so than you.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Right now and this is where I think we agree and I disagree with him in that there is a large signal the noise raise and actually mark1919 in the Ustream chat room had a great post and that I am going to read this back. The fact that there is a lot of noise to this signal never stop the cream from rising at the top. It will only grow up at 15, Soap Operah, Perillo and tech evangelist. You have to love that too and they are fast are few examples and I would agree with that and – there are ways of course to get passed the chatter and get back pass the noise and I would.

Cariann Higginbotham: But according to him we are still the noise.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Right and that’s where I would disagree.

Cariann Higginbotham: We have not succeeded, Pirillo has not succeeded, Leo Laporte has not succeeded, we have not succeeded.

Benjamin Higginbotham: See and I would argue that the broadcast television, radio and these highly produced shows they are the ones who actually failed because they just throw this highly produced shows that are just flashy and just super ADD and there is no.

Cariann Higginbotham: See but now I think you are doing the same thing he is doing, I think that in mainstream media you have the same mediocrity as you have good stuff. It’s maybe the ratio is a little bit different, but you can still find crap, this is the culture and no offense. I apologize in advance if anyone is offended by this, but in general this is the culture that gave us 3,000 different law and order spin-offs, this is the culture that produced Britney Spears, this is the Milli Vanilli, you can’t tell me that Milli Vanilli had more talent than what you and I have, that’s ridiculous, totally ridiculous and everyway shape and forum.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Well, all right Amsor says they only broadcast what Americans is like and I would disagree with that as well. The stations tend to broadcast what Neilson says people like, but Neilson doesn’t have a very good grasp on what’s really going on out there, they are just recently now starting look at DVR stuff, it took input ever to get into colleges, they don’t know, they claim to know, but they really don’t and then television metrics are based on, I don’t believe based on reality, whatsoever, and I think the things like Tech TV would still be on the air, if Neilson did a better job at what they do.

Cariann Higginbotham: Right, exactly.

Benjamin Higginbotham: So, I think the entire system is broken and saying that because you got the Internet…

Cariann Higginbotham: Jason forgive just jumping, we are talking right over here.

Benjamin Higginbotham: You just talked right on top of me here, actually I was just stopping, what’s your view point on all of this?

Jason Mac: One thing that King said really made me laugh and it was ridiculous and he coded that it has become that the Web 2.0 area is coming to an end pretty soon, and in all of its new stuff like the mass base and base birth and all that its going to basically back-off and let all these other true text stuff come back again the way it was back 15 or 20 years ago, whether when world of web first started which that absurd, Web 2.0 just started, it’s not coming to an end. I think it’s got a good future, one thing he says that I agree with is the mass base is stuff like that for the kiddy baapers [phonetic] and I agree with that, they need to keep all of those people there in all the true tech people of the true geeks. We have our spot out there, he doesn’t need to worry of all these people making these false statements on their blogs and all that, he just needs to understand and mostly people are going to take that stuff lightly in a first place and not going to agree with that take as the truth anyway and so Web 2.0 is not even near coming to the end of it cycle as far as my opinion is concerned.

Benjamin Higginbotham: I would agree.

Cariann Higginbotham: Did he has some this really bizarre stick as far as I am concerned, stuck in his head where he is convinced that everyone on the face of the earth, if they read it on online, they read it on a website it must be true?

Benjamin Higginbotham: No…

Cariann Higginbotham: And he is concerned, well OK, to certain extent I can sort of almost see where in this twisted little mind he thinks this where, “yes there are people like you and I who are in the 30-year-old range who saw the first .com boom and realize sometime Dan Rather falsifies documents and sometimes there is people who lie, that kind of thing and then anything and everything can be on the web and then you have to look at it with a critical eye, what he is saying though is that there are children like, if you and I had kids and if we don’t pass that information along to them, if we don’t exemplify to them, then you must be critical about these things that may be we will be spoiling an entire generation that does believe almost everything, obviously, there is common sense in the world thank God, but anything and everything that goes on online and honestly that is a little bit scary to me.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Let me ask you this, does he have a book coming out?

Cariann Higginbotham: Yeah.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Interesting.

Cariann Higginbotham: Yeah, but he was yelling and screaming about this before the book came out, he has a blog…

Benjamin Higginbotham: Yeah, but couldn’t he just be pre-promotion, couldn’t he have just been setting the stage, because look at what we are doing right now. We are talking about him and we have brought up his book, almost because I did and we are throwing his name out there, there is no such thing as bad publicity, may be he is just gaining the system and using it to its advantage.

Cariann Higginbotham: Oddly enough that was one of the things that somebody said I believe it was Lawrence Lessic I am going to put his blog up in the chat room, that said “you know I have got this theory, there is a possibility somewhere in the universe, somewhere in the Andy Kaufman way of life that Andrew Keen is the best, smartest, most live parodist of the 21^st century.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Couldn’t be though?

Cariann Higginbotham: He could be.

Benjamin Higginbotham: I am hearing all this stuff and he is talking such a hard approach in an area that just assume to make a lot of sense and he is getting a ton of blog, what better way to market your website through blogs, they are all going to link to you, they are all going to appoint to your articles, that’s going to increase your Google ranking, that’s going to increase your likely hood of getting found on Google, what a better way out there than to just go so full pull opposite of what you actually think and make it such a huge issue that you get everyone wild up and talking about it?

Cariann Higginbotham: Absolutely I understand, but if I may, just a little bit there are some things that he brings up that like I said before I don’t want 100% disagree with, Ryan Blitstein from San Jose Mercury News ….

Benjamin Higginbotham: I am going to let you find that and Marc1919 mentioned “Devorak explained that he does this” and referring to what we are calling link bating early on the chat room essentially a lot in his column all the time and I know that Devorack will actually beat Mac users because they are such a lively group and they will link to him and they will start shouting and spitting like “I can’t believe the words and …..” while he is just trying to get you wild up and get links out of you and get your attention, so you talk about him and that’s the part of the reason I don’t listen to Devorack, because I never know it’s a trust, I don’t know what he really means, I don’t know what he really thinks and then if I can’t get opinions from him, then I will see his is just regurgitating news. I don’t need a person do that for me, I can just go to the news sites and read it directly myself, so what value does he add to me. So, but the way that Andrew was doing this is truly unique, because now I am going to bring up his book which is The Cult of the Amateur and I am probably going to buy and read it.

Cariann Higginbotham: I am not buying it, I am going to the library I am not giving that man any of my money, I can just tell here right? If there is someway, I can steal the book, I will, OK?

Benjamin Higginbotham: I have a hard time believing that he actually truly believes all of these things. I think he is just doing a fantastic job of PR, that’s my theory.

Cariann Higginbotham: OK, Ryan Blitstein if I can go back to that really quickly, San Jose Mercury News, because I want to make sure that I give credit where credit is due. He said in his article about Andrew Keen, he said “finding great writing in the blogosphere or great music on MySpace isn’t an impossibility, its an engineering problem”, imagine a system that filters content based on trusted friends or people with similar taste of your or finds it by scanning your favorite music, site or blog?

Benjamin Higginbotham: There was a post about this, it was something called “The Google Grid” and may be someone in the chat room can figure this out, it’s a fictional work, it was from like 20-25 or something like that, where they took a look back at 2012 or whatever the date was and they were talking about how Google basically won all this stuff and how news became decentralized and the fourth states all just basically went away and media has been almost changed into this consumer driven system where you are fed exactly what you want to be fed, based on your interests and the people you trust and the news is essentially generated itself through different paragraphs and columns and whatnot and its interesting because may be we are moving towards a world like that, because why is Technology Evangelist any different than a large published news source, like a newspaper. They do their fact checking, we do our fact checking, we may or may not link to them, they may of may not link to us, I am not saying either one is good or bad. We do this same process to get to the same end result which is put our opinions and analysis on a story and a lot of people will say well, doing the news and we are not doing the news, we are evangelizing technology, so of course we are putting our opinions on it, but even if we were a news site, there is no such thing as just straight middle of the road news…

Cariann Higginbotham: That’s actually funny that you say that Ryan also brings that up in part of his article where he says “Keen’s vision would be unrecognizable today, anyone who is ever set for inside a newsroom where articles are often reported and written in a couple of hours by inexperienced reporters with no prior knowledge to the subject, the industry does a remarkable job given its limitations, but Keen’s characterization wrongly draws two greater distinction between “the professional journalist and the independent blogger”.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Now, I will say that for those who don’t know I actually was a director and technical director, depending on the night and we switched off jobs for a national television news station in the United States, so we did have a natural reach and I am not going to name this station, but I will say or even a network, but I will say that I am amazed it how much the story changes from the time it crosses the AP or UPI or whichever wire its coming across to the time it hits air, because you get the story with the bunch of text and you have to compress that down and what you said is absolutely true, the people writing the stories, they are not necessarily, in fact the most of them are not even college educated, these are the people you are getting your news from and looking up to them as if they are the gold standard, is not right. I left news because I felt I was lying to the American people and I didn’t like that, I felt dirty every morning, I loved the work itself, but I didn’t like what we were producing and I have a hard time when people say “look at this broadcast television news network” and I realize that’s not just news, and not news stations are like this and there are great, news has its purpose, but its best purpose is during the crisis situation. I know that sounds horrible, but…

Jason Mac: That’s true.

Benjamin Higginbotham: And that’s where they really shine.

Cariann Higginbotham: If I may, really, quickly against same article, I am sorry kids, but he says that in Keen’s afterward” in the book, Keen actually confesses that as a writer he still remains a bit of amateur, but early on when he writes a majority of blogs “radical, sweeping statements without evidence, it’s an ironic comment on his own work”, right? Perhaps Keen had may be a little bit more experience using numbers and logic to prove a thesis like those that he talks about these expert journalists, that may be the book would be a little bit more persuasive and I really laughed just like you did, I thought that was really, really funny.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Well, I got to go back to I think it’s a big marketing ploy and I think it is a brilliant marketing ploy actually. Has Scoble been talking about it, do you have the Microsoft guys talking, the Google guy…

Cariann Higginbotham: Actually there have been Jeff Jarvis and Andrew Keen are said to have an online debate if they haven’t already.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Yeah.

Cariann Higginbotham: And this than the other, there is lot of people who are talking about him absolutely.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Its all right, in fact I think its so brilliant I don’t mind actually advertising for the book in the show, because I just think its just that good, if you are just that brilliant and if you really does think this stuff and if you really does believe this good for him, its great advertising, he is great PR, its just fantastic. He has got me frothing at the mouth, right?

Cariann Higginbotham: Yeah, this guy is under my skin, like I am not one of those people who I really don’t consider myself to be an evangelist and at this point I am willing to scream at strangers about how much I despise this man.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Jason Mac, closing thoughts on this topic.

Jason Mac: Well I agree with the fact that his book is, what you said that about how he said that he was an amateur and his book has build upon that kind of rock, its called the amateur whatever.

Cariann Higginbotham: You are right, The Cult of Amateur see that we go.

Jason Mac: The Cult of Amateur, not pretty much cover it all.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Yeah, wait are you putting on a spa like that, its like “dance, dance, go, go”

Cariann Higginbotham: We know that nerds we talk too fast I understand.

Benjamin Higginbotham: All right, hey Jason one more plug for your website and tell us what we can find there.

Jason Mac: Its www.jasonmac.us and you will find a Mac book podcasted at every Tuesday and I actually I ease in the chat room, doing on segment on my podcast now, he is going to do a Mac tip every week also, so I am put him on there.

Cariann Higginbotham: Awesome.

Jason Mac: Which is real nice Mike, everybody subscribe you can go to iTunes and just type in Mac Book podcast it will put you the first thing, it pulls up or you go to my website and subscribe there.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Awesome taggular, Jason Mac I like you to thank you for joining us tonight and like to thank everyone in the Ustream chat room and if you are in Ustream and you like to join us in live just shoot me an email, my contact information is available at technologyevangelist.com/ben.html will bring you live in this show, I think it’s a little bit more fun when we bring in a guest, I realize we didn’t give Jason a whole lot of time to talk, we got into our soup box mode we started spitting and pointing and shouting at each other, but he absolutely added to the show, I think it was lot of fun and I made him redo the E-Ha in the beginning I think that’s awesome, that’s exactly what I want, I think its great, it was lot of fun. So, Jason thank you so much for joining us, everyone is Ustream also well thank you for joining us, if you would like to join us live you can do so at 10:00pm EDT, 9:00pm CDT, that’s 7:00pm PDT or that’s by the way 2 o’clock GMT, absolutely. If you like to do the time zone conversion you can do that at technologyevangelist.com on the upper right hand corner, tells you what time zone it occurs live otherwise you can download these podcasts via iTunes or your favorite mp3 player. All that information available on the right hand side of technologyevangelist.com. I like to thank everyone joining us live and for those of you listening on-demand think about joining us live tonight is lot of fun, have a great day, night, weekend whatever it may be.

Cariann Higginbotham: Have a great one.

Benjamin Higginbotham: Great one, I like that we call it like that from now on, have a great one.